what can change the nature of a man?*
You might remember that “what can change the nature of a man?” is the central question to Planescape: Torment, a computer RPG that came along in the late 90s.
I have no time for computer games these days (I last played SKYRIM sometime in October), but this might make me find time – there might possibly be a sequel to Planescape: Torment coming along.
I got Planescape: Torment in 1999, and did not actually finish it until 2005. Ah, but it was a twisty, complex, deep maze of a game, with layers upon layers, like a fractal onion. A definite classic, and there has been nothing like it before or since. It was really more of an interactive novel with occasional battles – if I remember correctly, something like 500,000 words of dialog were written for the game.
Because of that novel-like nature, there were scenes of remarkable power in the game, scenes that I still remember years later. Like the ultimate purpose of the bronze sphere. Or the Nameless One’s confrontation with Ravel Puzzlewell in her black-brambled prison. Or the inscriptions around the sarcophagus in the Nameless One’s tomb. And the fact that of all the potential combats in the game, I think only three of them are actually unavoidable – the Nameless One can literally talk himself out of anything else, up to and including the game’s final battle.
So if there is a Torment sequel, I will definitely be checking it out.
-JM
*In the game, the question has no right answer – the point of the question isn’t the answer, but how you answer, since it’s one of those questions that reveals more about the person answering the question than any sort of objective truth.
🙂
Hey thanks for pointing that out Jon, I had no idea!
Unlike some of the other old crpgs, I never tried Planescape Torment, I also thought it quite strange, probably thanks to the cover art. But I’m thrilled I’ll get a chance to play a sequel! The same goes for Baldur’s Gate 3, which seems very likely to be made, but by whom I know not.
All I hope is that if either game is made, it does not fall into the pitfalls that plague resurrected series. A balancing act is required, you have to keep enough of what made the old series great, but in a new way, one that can go toe to toe with current games. I think Dragon Age Origins is a wonderful example of this. It is both old school crpg goodness, and modern epic! A great spiritual successor to the old D&D games!
I just hope Planscape and BG3 don’t ditch too much of what made them great, but at the same time don’t get all DA2! That would not be the right path to go.
The article also mentions that new Project Eternity game. Does that tickle your fancy? I thought it looks…well, it looks like it could be fun, but some things might hamper it…
I’m not too happy it’s literally going to be an old school rpg; isometric view, pre-rendered backrounds, etc. Also, it looks like Obsidian is getting infected by the social justice bug that hurt DA2, do we really need another fantasy rpg dealing with racism(done already), sexism (*sigh*), and sexual orientation (oh come on, not again!!)? A game dealing with philosophical issues would be fun, but not another game with liberal pet causes shoved ham fistedly in a fantasy setting! Oh please God no more! It’s like that’s a given nowadays…
“I think Dragon Age Origins is a wonderful example of this. It is both old school crpg goodness, and modern epic! A great spiritual successor to the old D&D games!”
Exactly.
“The article also mentions that new Project Eternity game. Does that tickle your fancy? I thought it looks…well, it looks like it could be fun, but some things might hamper it…”
It looks like it *could* be really good, but the proof is in the pudding.
“Also, it looks like Obsidian is getting infected by the social justice bug that hurt DA2, do we really need another fantasy rpg dealing with racism(done already), sexism (*sigh*), and sexual orientation (oh come on, not again!!)? A game dealing with philosophical issues would be fun, but not another game with liberal pet causes shoved ham fistedly in a fantasy setting!”
Yes. The thing is modern American liberalism (it has quite the authoritarian streak so it seems odd to call it “liberal”, but I can’t think of a better term just now) is as much a religion as Christianity or Islam. And American liberalism is a zealous and persecuting god who will suffer no rival, and so its faithful are almost compelled to preach whenever possible. But explicitly religious (or moralizing) artwork is often quite bad – think of the “Christian” songs and novels and video games that turn out preachy and dull. If Project Obsidian’s developers aren’t careful, that’s exactly what will happen to their game. But, as always, I’ll wait until there’s an actual game before rendering an opinion – Kickstarter projects have a way of imploding.
“The thing is modern American liberalism…”
I hear ya brother, amen! Glad I’m not the only one who picks up on that. A religion it is, one that I think it’s safe to say is the official religion of the modern west. You, me, and others like us may very well be minorities here someday, if we aren’t already. Then again, considering liberalism is a beast that devours itself, and it’s victory means it’s downfall, it won’ be like that forever. You should check out James Kalb’s work on the matter, he’s quite astute in this area! Give him a google search.
As far as game makers go, I don’t mind it if their politics differ from mine, but good lord some of them can’t control their inner zealousness! This seems to have gotten worse in recent years, the best example is the induction of homosexualism into different game series, especially RPG or sim games. It’s bad enough that they need to affirm the ‘normality’ of homosex in sim games, but it hits new heights of stupidity when they shove it into medieval fantasies! It sticks out like such a sore thumb so much it’s actually funny. Historic moral and religious objections of the time (not to mention today) aside, those kind of relationships just would not have worked in past settings, you know this quite well Jon. In a world where you depended on your heirs, relationships that produced no offspring would have been utterly useless. Modern day queer theory would be quite anathema to ancient settings.
And as for explicitly religious or moralizing art…I’d have to disagree with you there. History is a old mistress indeed. Some of the greatest artwork ever created, ranging from paintings, to sculpture, to music, to architecture, have been explicitly religious. But I’m sure you know that, you were just a bit to generalizing in scope, you mean the modern, usually fundamentalist/evangelical stuff that they sadly sponser. You would be right about that. Very much so. Lame pop songs, Left Behind, and the like are poor excuses for art, I only wish those people understood that, they’d do their faith better justice if they followed CS Lewis’s advice.
The only problem here I see is that while everyone knows the evangelical/fundamentalist ‘christian’ ‘art’ is bogus, that is not true of leftist ventures. They are routinely celebrated in today’s world. So Obsidian/Bioware/Bethesda, and whoever else could go as far a they like, and they won’t even be held to account for it. Not from the critics anyway. Nor from gamers, most seem to not to care, one way or the other, sadly.
All their sturm und drang aside, when you get a chance, you really should check out Kingdoms of Amalur:Reckoning and the Divinity games, besides being great fun, they are also free of the annoying ideology that some of their brothers are not.
Actually I don’t think I mentioned the Divinity games to you. They just came out with the Divinity Anthology, celebrating their 10th anniversary, which collects all their games into one bundle. They were pretty fun! The first two were hackn’slash action RPGs like Diablo, but with the heavy storyline of old crpgs, and the size of Elder Scrolls games. Their latest, Divinity II, was revamped to a more open world RPG style, but kept everything that made the original fun. They are also quite funny, a kind of ironic take on high fantasy. They were just released on Steam as well.
“You should check out James Kalb’s work on the matter, he’s quite astute in this area! Give him a google search.”
I’ve read some of his articles, and found them insightful.
“As far as game makers go, I don’t mind it if their politics differ from mine, but good lord some of them can’t control their inner zealousness!”
Yes. You see this from time to time with writer blogs as well, like a male writer who can’t shut up about how feminist he is, or another going on about how THE LORD OF THE RINGS is actually a secret racist manifesto. It’s the sort of parochialism you see in people who assume that other points of view are not only invalid, but that the only reason to hold them is hidden malice.
On a relate note, you might want check this out:
http://www.amazon.com/Throne-Bones-Arts-Light-ebook/dp/B00AHK8LGI
From what I understand, the author wrote it as a deliberate contrast against the sort of nihilistic fantasy popular nowadays.
“All their sturm und drang aside, when you get a chance, you really should check out Kingdoms of Amalur:Reckoning and the Divinity games, besides being great fun, they are also free of the annoying ideology that some of their brothers are not.”
If I ever have time for gaming again, I’ll give them a shot. 🙂
“THE LORD OF THE RINGS is actually a secret racist manifesto.”
lol, that’s new. Then again, back in the ’60s their were commies who thought it was a communist manifesto. Go figure.
“On a relate note, you might want check this out”
Hey, thanks! I looked into it, and actually…this looks like it could be really good! It even has awesome cover art. Plus it has a map 😉 (and a very handsome one at that)
The thing that actually sold me though, what finalized the deal more like it, was this statement from the publisher:
“The Christian answer to George R. R. Martin.”
ROFL! Now I have to read this!
I heard that line said the other year, but I didn’t know who or what it was about, now I do.
One of the funnier things about this is that the book is from a Christian publisher, yet bares little to no resemblence to other “christian” fiction. It seems to be there for simply two reasons: 1) The author is a Christian 2) It is a medieval fantasy that actually takes the real middle ages seriously…
What do I mean? Let this quote from a review enlighten you:
“I highly anticipated his return to a world where a semi-traditional medieval fantasy setting contains what nearly all medieval fantasy worlds implausibly leave out: the massive, ubiquitous presence of the Roman Church.”
You know though, alot of fantasies do actually have a stand in(s) for the Church, the problem comes in fleshing it out. Then again, maybe I’m thinking video game/RPG/tabletop board game fantasies more than fantasy novels…I’m not sure, your far more read then I am Jon, you’d know.
“From what I understand, the author wrote it as a deliberate contrast against the sort of nihilistic fantasy popular nowadays.”
Now that makes it sound all the more interesting! I’m glad to see someone finally taking them to task! Though as I understand it, from flipping through some of the articles he wrote, he seems to like Martin’s stuff (minus his latest, not that he is alone there) and some of the other guys in general. Or maybe I misread? He also seems to hate Wheel of Time, with a particular loathing of it’s main character, lol. Poor Rand.
Also after reading some of his stuff…he’d have a field day with your books Jon. 😉
Just on one area: your female heroines. He seems to be big on the “warrior woman make no sense” bandwagon. I actually think his position is the better one, BUT I don’t hold it against you because I like your work so much! Plus, you don’t make you ladies wear thongs while going to war. 😉
“You know though, alot of fantasies do actually have a stand in(s) for the Church, the problem comes in fleshing it out. Then again, maybe I’m thinking video game/RPG/tabletop board game fantasies more than fantasy novels…I’m not sure, your far more read then I am Jon, you’d know.”
Actually, that’s sufficiently common that it has its own trope name – Crystal Dragon Jesus. See here:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrystalDragonJesus
Some authors can pull it off better than others.
“Also after reading some of his stuff…he’d have a field day with your books Jon. ;)”
Well…meh. The bald fact is that you write on the Internet, not everyone is going to like your stuff, and some people are going to be quite vocal about it. You learn to live with it. 🙂
“Plus, you don’t make you ladies wear thongs while going to war. ;)”
That would be a poor choice, tactically speaking. 🙂
“Actually, that’s sufficiently common that it has its own trope name – Crystal Dragon Jesus.”
lol, yes I know. I have even checked out that web page before, it’s quite full, heh. That trope is used alot, and yes some do it better than others. I think the trope itself is legit, as it gives the setting a much more medieval or ancient flavor. Though it’s more than a little nonlogical…a religion founded on a god other than Christ would not produce a Christian-like religion, it’d be it’s own thing.
“Well…meh. The bald fact is that you write on the Internet, not everyone is going to like your stuff, and some people are going to be quite vocal about it. You learn to live with it.”
🙂 That’s a good way to look at things.
FWIW like I said earlier, even though I’d agree with Vox Day on the female warrior issue, your stuff is worth reading! And FWIW you at least try to make your female warriors more plausible than the average writer; Romaria is a good example, it’s in the blood.
BTW, were you planning on reading Vox’s book? If so would you consider doing a review on it?
“BTW, were you planning on reading Vox’s book? If so would you consider doing a review on it?”
Yes. Probably over Christmas, once I get the rough draft of SOUL OF SKULLS done.